Interview: Michael Shannon on ‘The Iceman,’ Boring Romances and Murder

When one thinks of actor Michael Shannon, the image that comes to mind is not necessarily puppies and fields of daisies. And he’s fine with that. 

The burly actor is known for roles in “Take Shelter,” HBO’s “Boardwalk Empire” and other brutal characters. Shannon, who stars in this weekend’s “The Iceman” as real-life serial killer Richard Kuklinski, under contract for the mob and leading a double life that not even his wife knows the depths of, takes parts the he finds challenging and interesting. Things he doesn’t find interesting: Romance. “Who the hell wants to see that?!” he asked. 

We sat down with Shannon in New York ahead of the release of “The Iceman,” where the actor ate continuously from a bowl of pistachios and sipped on a glass of red wine while discussing romance, his perfect murder and which of his films you should give a second chance.

Kase Wickman: I find you very intimidating.

Michael Shannon: As you should! No, I’m just kidding. I’m a goofball.

Do people recognize you on the street? Are they scared of you? What do they do?

They usually say, “Hey, I know you! You’re so-and-so in such-and-such! Can I get my picture with you?” Okay! I Do the picture and say, “Have a nice day, buh-bye!” I always say, beyond the initial act of recognizing somebody, the funny thing about it is there’s nothing to talk about. There’s no conversation to be had, it’s literally like tag. it’s like ah, I got ya! I need to let you know that I see you. The only time it irritates me is when people say “I know I know who you are, but I don’t know why, so will you explain to me why I know who you are because it’s really bugging me.”

They’re like, “What were you in!” I say, “A lot of things.” And they’re like, “No, seriously, what’ve you been in?” I say, “Really, I’ve been doing this for over 20 years, I’ve worked on a lot of projects.” And then if they insist, I say I was in “Bad Boys 2,” because that’s honestly probably the movie I’m most known for.

Do people quote lines at you ever?

“I have my rights.” Some people quote that to me, but they don’t do it very often.

In this movie, you play a hitman. Was there anything new for you in that?

I really just went to the source material, which is the interview that Kuklinski did for the America Undercover series they did on HBO, and I got a full unedited copy of the interview, which is like over 20 hours long and I just watched it.

Did you imitate mannerisms? How much of it’s you and how much is modeled specifically on him?

A part of the film that is a direct lift from the interview, it bookends the film, starts it and ends it, that I tried to get exactly the way it was. I tried. I mean, I don’t really even look, despite the makeup and everything, I don’t really look like him, but I tried to get that right. But for most of the rest of the film, I used my imagination. I went off things that he said about himself, but it’s tricky because I don’t think anybody really knows what happened. I don’t think he ever really told anybody what happened. I think he told different people different things. It’s hard to know what to make of a guy who says he killed between 100 and 200 people. I mean, that’s a large difference. It’s like saying, you know, I bat between .300 and .400 in baseball, it’s a big difference. You would know.

What do you think would be the perfect murder?

Well, Kuklinski came up with this Mr. Freezy character. They would explore ways where you could literally walk down the sidewalk past a person and kill them without touching them or them even knowing what happened. You didn’t even have to stop walking. It had a lot to do with the cyanide system. Like what you see in the disco in the movie, when he dances by the guy and sprays it in his face. That’s pretty good. Although that’s the way you wind up getting caught, by trying to buy cyanide off an undercover cop.

I eat cyanide every day for breakfast.

“Princess Bride” style, to build up resistance?

Yeah, exactly.

How do you think you’d kill someone? 

Huh. I just can’t imagine killing anybody. That seems like such a horrible thing. I mean, life is so precious, I would not want to be responsible for ending someone’s life, I could never shake that off.

Somewhere down the hall, the publicists are very relieved and they don’t know why.

Yeah. I mean, every once in a while I go off, I have a little temper tantrum or whatever. It’s not like I’m an unemotional person, I mean if I was, I wouldn’t be an actor. Most actors are prone to fits every now and then, but the idea of actually hurting anybody, I couldn’t stomach it.

Your characters are often very violent. Do you have a favorite stage fighting move?

I’ve done a lot of stage combat over the years because I’ve done a lot of plays, and I’ve done a lot of plays that have had combat in them for whatever reason. I’m not trained in martial arts or any sort of, you know, soldier maneuvers or anything. I basically just go on my experience on stage, doing stage combat.

I like the fake punch. I like the punch, fake punch. I mean, my favorite fight I’ve ever done on stage was the end of “Killer Joe.” When we did the play, the fight at the end is very savage. That was my favorite fight sequence ever. It ended with me, like, getting shoved into a refrigerator and all the shelves falling out and him slamming the door on me and crushing my legs and then my sister shoots a shot into the air and everybody freezes and I come out of the fridge, and I’m like, “Sister!” and then she shoots me in the head.

Wow.

It’s an intense play.

Sounds like a light comedy.

It’s what I’m known for.

You’ve definitely got the bad guy thing down pat. Would you ever do something like a rom com?

With you?

Sure.

Yeah! Let’s do it! Who’s gonna write it?

What would it be about?

It would just be about two people having the time of their lives, just enjoying each others’ company, going on long walks in the park, having, you know, brunch together. Just having a nice life! That could be the name of it: “A Nice Life.” But who the hell wants to see that?! That’s my point. Every time someone asks me, “Why do you do this?” I’m like, there has to be something going on. There has to be an event, a conflict, a struggle…something! Catharsis, you know. Ever since the Greeks, that’s what it is. Something hot has to happen. It can’t just be everyone having a good time.

There can be conflict in romance too though.

Yeah, but that’s all, like, ahh, I got her the wrong shoes! She wanted the blue ones, I got her the red ones. Oh well. I mean, there are artfully constructed romantic comedies, but I haven’t seen any recently. The tend to be kind of antique.

What are some good romances, then? What is Michael Shannon’s favorite light fare?

“Philadelphia Story” is the best romantic comedy ever made, in my opinion. Um, maybe something like, you know, “Carnal Knowledge.” That’s a great movie. I don’t know if it’s necessarily a comedy. This crap nowadays, I can’t even stand. I don’t even go to the movies anymore. I really don’t. I don’t watch TV, I don’t do anything.

Do you watch your own movies?

Oh yeah, yeah, usually I go to the premiere or whatever. I mean, that’s fun! I mean, you did all that frickin’ work, you might as well go see the damn thing.

My favorite movie last year was “Amour.” That was the best movie of last year. It’s the best one. My grandma had a stroke about 10 years before she died, and I had to watch her in a similar state to the character Emmanuelle Riva plays, so for me it was a very emotional experience, very personal.

Are there any of yours that you really like?

I’ll revisit some now and then, if the opportunity presents itself. I don’t sit at home and obsessively watching my movies. The movie I’m most fond of is “Take Shelter,” really, out of all the movies I’ve made. I have a lot of them though that I’m fond of. I was in Sidney Lumet’s last picture, for chrissakes, that was pretty cool. The last one before he died.

What do you think is your most underrated film?

Yeah, yeah, I got two of ‘em: “The Missing Person” and “Grand Theft Parsons,” did you see that? I wish more people would see those two movies, because I’m actually very proud of those two movies.

Were they just under-marketed, or not received the way you would have liked?

“The Missing Person” was released by a company that, honestly, should just go out of business. Strand Releasing can just roast in hell. “Grand Theft Parsons,” I don’t know what happened with that. I don’t know what released it. It’s tough. There’s so many damn movies. There’s more movies out there than there’s any need for. It’s ridiculous. Our “Iceman” movie is coming out the same weekend as “Iron Man 3.” I think we’ll do alright per screen. I hope so.

That sorority girl letter video is one of my favorite things ever. Did that voice come naturally to you?

I did it seven times. Two wides, two mediums, two close and one profile. And I didn’t get it until the profile, and the profile is when I nailed it. The wide, medium and tight, they’re okay, but the profile is really where I understood what was going on.

So what did you understand?

I found the voice, the rhythm. It’s not like a rational thing, it’s more like, it’s very ethereal. Acting is a very ethereal thing that’s not easy to explain in words.

Was it your idea to turn this into a monologue?

I had nothing to do with it. I didn’t even know about the letter. I never go on the internet. I read my emails every once in a while, that’s it.

Can you tell me anything I don’t already know about “Man of Steel”? 

It’s about this guy named Superman, and he flies around and he, like, does stuff.

“The Iceman” arrives in theaters tomorrow. Check out our not so hot review.

Categories: Interviews

Tags: Michael shannon, Michael Shannon Interview, The Iceman

Director’s Cut: Seimetz on ‘Sun Don’t Shine,’ ‘Upstream Color’ and Why Murder Is Bad

Right now, as you read this, Amy Seimetz is blowing up. Just now she got a little more famous. There, it happened again. There’s a good chance that by breakfast tomorrow there will even be a bit of a backlash. But for now – right now – this is her moment.

A veteran actress on the micro-indie stage (“Alexander the Last,” “Gabi on the Roof in July,”) she can currently be seen in the much ballyhooed “Upstream Color.” In addition to that, she has three major acting gigs in the can – Lionsgate’s horror/comedy “You’re Next,” Christopher Guest’s HBO show “Family Tree” and one of the new lead roles in AMC’s third season of “The Killing.”

Seimetz’s first feature as a director, the award-winning “Sun Don’t Shine,” is about to make its theatrical and VOD debut. It stars Kate Lyn Sheil and Kentucker Audley as two lovers on the run with a dead body in their trunk. It is shot on 16mm film in the blazing Flordia sun and it is lyrical and elliptical and refuses to make excuses for its characters. It’s a remarkable vehicle for Sheil, who, by all rights, ought to be blowing up right alongside Seimetz.

This past Sunday the New York Times ran a profile that, no offense to the Grey Lady, was exciting for Ms. Seimetz’s scrapbook, but didn’t do much to tell us what made her tick. We had the good fortune to catch her via telephone very late on Sunday night, tuckered out from shooting and not beholden to any normal talking points. As such, this conversation is all over the place. However, it is just that – a conversation. We invite you to read along.

Jordan Hoffman: I first saw “Sun Don’t Shine” a little over one year ago when it played the festival circuit. At the end of last year the Indiewire Critics’ Poll named it the Best Undistributed Film. I imagine that is among the most strangely gratifying awards out there – a real rebuke to the world, like, hey, what the hell, you guys all screwed up!

Amy Seimetz: Of course. It’s a strange world, where I’m working on television shows and winning the “best film not distributed.” But only because I didn’t set out to make stuff that’s mainstream. I’ve always tried to make personal and, earlier on, aggressive films. So it’s interesting for me to come into a place where you’re not sure if you’re becoming more mainstream or if you are suddenly finding your voice.

Well, I wanted to talk about this later, but you are alluding to acting in HBO show “Family Tree” and the new season of “The Killing,” neither of which have debuted yet. Is this something that keeps you up nights? Are you, to say it like we did when we were in college, worried about “losing your cred?”

How do you lose your cred working for Christopher Guest?

Fair point.

And … have you watched “The Killing?”

Um, no, but …

Well, the way that they shoot – the way both shows shoot, actually – they are really pushing boundaries of story. “The Killing” is a slow burn and you are allowed to breathe with characters, and understand a world that is uncomfortable. It’s very punchy and entertaining, don’t get me wrong, but it goes to dark places.

And when the season finale happens everyone loses their s**t on the Internet. Like I said, I haven’t gotten to this show yet, but I know people freak the hell out about it. Are you prepared for that sort of feedback?

I don’t know. Truth is, I don’t know how Season Three ends. I know the trajectory, but not the ending. I try to stay away from the response to stuff as best I can, but someone asked me “are you ready for people to really hate you?” I was … “huh? What do you mean?”

These longform stories on cable, people get really tied up in them. So, yeah, you’ll be spat upon in the streets.

I’d rather that than play some woman who is easy to deal with.

So, let’s let you shill for a minute, Amy Seimetz. For idiots like me who have their heads in the sand, I would imagine that Season Three is the perfect place for a newcomer to jump in?

Yes, absolutely true.

It’s as if it were made for guys like me who have been meaning to catch “The Killing,” but haven’t, and now I can.

This is all totally true.

Elias Koteas is in the new cast.

I know, right? Isn’t he amazing? But it’s funny, most of my scenes are outside of Elias, but we’re all really excited to be with him. But I don’t have any fun set stories, I don’t have any scenes with him. He’s around, though, and I do get a little starstruck. Same as on “Family Tree.”

What is your favorite scene from a Christopher Guest movie?

In “Waiting For Guffman,” when he’s trying to sell that the community needs to give him $100,000 for him to put on his play. When he’s telling them how dreamy and wonderful the play will be. And they all say “it’s great! It’s wonderful!” and they are so supportive, then he says he wants $100,000 and the board says they have something like $15,000 for the entire arts funding. And he gets so mad and tells them that they are all awful people. [starts laughing.] It’s the reactions, really, and that’s what’s so great about his films. They are so human – it doesn’t just go to a funny level just to be funny – it’s human and it’s painful.

Guest’s films really did anticipate the proliferation of lot of the semi-scripted stuff that’s happening on TV, as well as the “comedy of embarrassment.”

He’s the beacon of a very specific format.

You have some scenes with Fred Willard?

Oh, yeah. He just turns on. He’s a beautifully eccentric man. In real life you just think “okay, he’s just this eccentric dude” then the camera comes on and this wild world comes out of his mouth. It’s just, “wow, he is holding all these beautiful ideas inside.” Same with Bob Balaban.

Another guy who has directed some great films.

Right? Everyone on this show is, in a way, writing and directing their own material outside of it.

You should bill them triple.

Huh.

Okay, enough chit-chat. Let’s talk about “Sun Don’t Shine.” This movie begins with an outstanding opening scene, and an outstanding opening shot. Woe be to anyone who comes to the theater a minute late and misses the opening shot. Was this in draft one?

Not draft one, but as I got a firmer grasp on the immediacy, then yes. By the time we shot I knew that was going to be the opening. Initially I had a prologue.

Was the prologue about the victim? Or about the off-screen child?

It was about the child. The prologue was going to set up the Mom telling a bedtime story to the daughter, then later you realize she’s telling the story as a rationalization of the actions she did – a fairy tale in a way that explains why someone would do something like this.

That’s interesting to me, because one of the things I find when watching this movie is wondering just what kind of mother is Kate Lyn Sheil. She is, if I can speak bluntly, she’s such a mess, that you think “I want to see her with her child.” “How does she behave as a mother?” is one of the big question marks.

Yes, and that is why I excluded it. I really wanted to extract a female character from the role of being a mom. You can decide if she’s a good mom or not, but extract her from the roles of motherhood or a professional setting or whether she’s ambitious, then you just have a person in an existential crisis.

We only see her in this pressure cooker environment. We never see her at rest.

Exactly, that’s my take on it. Your role as a mother or a professional person – it’s done and gone. You are doomed by the situation.

Right. You know, as a guy who writes movie reviews, I often think about how people would write about things. If you see the character before and she works, say, selling car insurance, the graf might read “Kate Lyn Sheil, a car insurance agent, is on the run with her boyfriend …” when it isn’t relevant.

It’s funny, when Kate and I talked when this first was shown and some people got angry at the movie, we noticed that people got really angry at her. No one got mad at him [Kentucker Audley.] But she shouldn’t be doing these things! People got angry. I loved that they were freaking out.

There should be more – usually that anger is reserved for male parts, for the Ray Liotta parts, you know? [laughs.] Which is funny because I just watched “Killing Them Softly” and for the first time I was like, “wow, I feel sad for this character.”

I love that movie.

I loved it! Andrew Dominik. It’s so great. It’s shot so gorgeously. Greig Fraser is a terrific DP.

I saw that with my chum Matt Patches of Hollywood.com at a screening room in New York City and when we got in the elevator he and I were over the moon about it, and a very well-put-together older woman audibly chuffed at us. “That movie was vile and despicable,” she said, and we were like “We know!”

[laughs.] Yes, I know, I agree, it’s vile, it’s violent and brutal. What I loved about it was that I felt so bad for the criminals. I felt really sad for Ray Liotta. So, what I was thinking was, women don’t get to play these parts – roles that say “here I am, here’s where I exist in the world and you either hate me or you don’t, but I’ll give you all this baggage and this is how I’m dealing with this shit.”

Kate and I made a joke. I said “maybe when you go to the payphone” – there’s a big scene in “Sun Don’t Shine” where he sees her at a payphone – “maybe instead of it being ambiguous about whether you called your daughter or your mom or not, maybe we should have had you trading stocks. Shouting ‘buy buy buy! sell sell sell!’” Then people would say “well, at least she knows how to trade stocks.”

There’s a weird fake form of feminism that, in order to be a complete human being, you need to have a stronghold on your professional life in a cinematic sense. If I gave her some mundane knowledge, like knowing how to sell stocks, then people would think that she had some self-worth in the world, you know? People would say “this isn’t so bad, now.”

One could argue she’s been put upon her own life, and has never had an opportunity to quote unquote better herself.

That’s what I wanted to explore. What does it mean to be a victim? I didn’t want to shy away from the unhealthy aspects of victim status. Especially the participatory aspects of it. Why do women keep finding themselves in these positions? Or men, for that matter. The willingness to allow yourself in the position until it is too late. That’s a controversial stance to take – but I think it is empowering for victims to recognize that they are, in some way, allowing themselves to be victims.

Do you consider “Sun Don’t Shine” a cautionary tale?

It’s complicated. More of an exploration. There’s no message I’m trying to bring home.

Well, “crime doesn’t pay” is in there.

Well, right, but specifically, there’s no excuse for behavior. You can have all these things happen, but murder is not a good choice.

That’s the headline. Amy Seimetz: Murder is Not a Good Choice.

Yes.

This movie is set in Florida. Whenever someone sends you a tabloid story about some outlandish crime, it’s always in Florida. You’re from Florida. What the hell’s going on down there?

Always Florida, seriously. I’m born and raised, and that’s the feeling. I didn’t grow up with people who shoved bodies in trunks, but there is a feeling that this could happen to you at any moment. It’s a violent place and only when I moved away did I realize not everyone went to high schools were there were four violent fights a day. Or that violence was not the obvious way to end an argument.

Could it be the heat?

Yes, I think this is a huge aspect, seriously. Heat makes you crazy. If you are in the heat for long periods of time it changes the way you approach things. You are just “I don’t care, I just want this done” attitude, in the way you dress, the way you act. Statistically, crime increases as heat increases. It gets your atoms moving faster and more aggravated.

Also, Florida is a confused landscape. Like Australia, they sent criminals down there to dredge this inhabitable place into a vacation land. Who else would go down? They made a work program.

Ever seen John Sayles’ “Sunshine State?”

Oh, God, yes, I love that movie. And I told John Sayles that unabashedly when I was in Toronto with “A Horrible Way To Die.” I saw him and ran over and flipped out and everyone told me I was being really uncool.

It’s okay to be uncool around a guy like John Sayles, I mean, what the hell?

Right, that’s what I said. I said “you guys are being uncool!” Everyone was standing around saying that he was their hero and I’m the one who ran over!

There’s a brief moment at a low-rent Mermaid Show, with a woman breathing through a hose. . .

It’s real!

Yeah, I had a hunch.

I made a documentary about that place with James Ponsoldt. It’s a time-warp roadside attraction. It just felt right to go there, a place set for escape, right on the water. And mermaids, the transformation of women, these mythical creatures, is a theme in the whole film – I’d written them in as sirens, as a noir aspect.

Boy, I’m an idiot. That blazed right past me. Don’t tell anyone I said that, that’s embarrassing.

Eh, it’s fine.

Mermaids date back to sirens who would lure to men in the water. Now, the ones that fascinate me the most are the ones that just want to play. They lure men to come and play and they aren’t aware that men can’t breathe and they die. I like the idea of someone who is unaware of the consequences.

These are sirens who are in no way malicious, just joyous and playful and killing men unbeknownst to themselves?

Yes, this is much more interesting to me than the typical femme fatale. Someone with no control over their emotions, who aren’t self-aware about why they need someone else.

THE CONVERSATION CONTINUES ON PAGE 2.

Categories: Interviews

Tags: Amy seimetz, Christopher guest, Director's cut, Interview, Sun Don't Shine, The killing, Upstream Color